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Stand Out

Oct 27, 2021

Today we have two wonderful guests on the show to share their thoughts and experiences in our ongoing discussion of diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI. Janine Sarna-Jones is a certified professional organizer and certified move manager, and has a history with NAPO stretching back 20 years! Todd Allan started his work in organizing focusing on residential projects but has graduated to the digital space, applying his love of technology to help clients deal with digital clutter, specializing in Google Workspace and Evernote. In today's chat, we spend some time unpacking the personal and professional realms to diversity, equity, and inclusion, talking about awareness, alignment, action. Our guests highlight the power of noticing, share some ideas about speaking up and how to go about this, the role of the ally, and much more! This conversation fully embodies the nuanced nature of the subject, and the need for personalized choices, a strong stance, and most importantly, necessary change in the world around us. So to hear it all from Clare, Todd, and Janine, be sure to listen in today on Stand Out!


Key Points From This Episode:


  • [00:04:54] Opening thoughts from our guests on the topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
  • [00:11:56] Janine's upbringing in East Palo Alto and experiences of otherness.
  • [00:16:27] The idea of masking and how Todd's early years impacted his later life.
  • [00:21:04] Balancing genuine curiosity with sensitivity to the offense that can be caused.
  • [00:25:48] The kinds of questions that might make people uncomfortable in certain circumstances.
  • [00:32:44] An approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion that focuses on overcoming hurdles.
  • [00:36:39] Thoughts on the continual journey of learning, compassion, and questioning.
  • [00:38:02] The work of allies and some simple steps towards better awareness and action.
  • [00:43:48] Todd's story of a homophobic joke, speaking out, and the positive results.
  • [00:47:17] Applying the lessons of diversity, equity, and inclusion to the organizing profession.
  • [00:51:37] Reflecting on the DEI initiatives at NAPO and the work that is still to be done!


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:



Todd Allan on LinkedIn —

Strctured Space —

Janine Sarna-Jones on LinkedIn —

Organize Me Inc. —

Evernote —



The Painted Bird

Clare Kumar on LinkedIn —